US Protests - How do you think it's going to end

[Glurin]

At the Trump rally in DC today, a newly minted Republican Congresscritter just quoted Hitler today and said that he was right. She wasn't speaking off the cuff. This was a prepared speech. She was speaking to her crowd.

Also...the guys waving the confederate flag in the Capitol building probably weren't racist bigots. Right?

I haven't heard the speech, so I don't know the content or the context.

As for the flags though, I just went through multiple videos from multiple angles and multiple times of day. I saw a lot of American flags, Trump flags, Gadsden flags, but you know what I don't see?

Confederate flags.

Yeah, a grand total of zero in over a dozen different videos of the crowd. Oh I'm sure there's one somewhere. Like one guy in the background that the usual suspects will likely latch onto and blow up into an army like they usually do, but it is definitely not representative of the group.

 

[Glurin]

So the coup attempt today was all the dem's fault? Gotcha.

In a lot of ways, yes, it was. Republicans are not the ones who have been demanding more censorship and labeling their opponents as racists just so their arguments and concerns can be ignored. Republicans are not the ones using a double standard in labeling who is a criminal and who isn't, who is an insurrectionist and who isn't. Republicans are not the ones who deliberately held back Corona virus relief purely to use it as a political weapon against their opponents. Republicans are not the ones who have publicly promised to pack the courts just to protect their agenda. Republicans are not the ones who have had several of their own congressional members propose what is in all but name reeducation camps to "correct" the thinking of those who oppose them politically. Republicans are not the ones who have all the major news and social media outlets in their back pocket.

Don't get me wrong. Republicans have their own brand of blame they have to share, and I'm not agreeing with people raiding the capital building like that. But if you're looking for a bad guy here, you're a very, very long way off from calling the Democrat party innocent.

 

[superdave]

But sunshine...some of them ARE racists. The Republicans ARE the ones making the job of fighting Covid harder. The Republicans ARE the ones who DID pack the courts already. The Republicans ARE the ones filling the camps with immigrant children. Republicans ARE the ones tuning in daily to FOX, OAN and Newsmax.

 

[Glurin]

But sunshine...some of them ARE racists. The Republicans ARE the ones making the job of fighting Covid harder. The Republicans ARE the ones who DID pack the courts already. The Republicans ARE the ones filling the camps with immigrant children. Republicans ARE the ones tuning in daily to FOX, OAN and Newsmax.

Wow, you are 1 for 5 on that one, and only because the word "some" can mean "one or two".

Trump is the one behind operation warp speed, remember? That little thing where he got government regulators out of the way and covered manufacturing costs so we could have a vaccine as early as possible. (Which we ended up with two in an unprecedented short amount of time.) He's also the one that shutdown travel to places where the virus was running rampant, despite being called a racist xenophobe for doing so. (And then later accused by the very same people of being incompetent for not closing the borders sooner.) Plus, Republicans and even some democrats in congress were actually begging Pelosi to allow a Covid relief bill through, which she patently refused to do because "Trump." There's also this little nugget where in many relief boxes and care packages and the like, a letter from the President was included urging people to wear masks, wash their hands, social distance, etc. Those letters were removed by anti-Trumpers because they didn't specifically say "You will do these things, that is an order from the President. I am the President so you have to do what I say because I'm the President!"

Republicans didn't pack the courts either. What they did was fill vacancies that Obama left behind as well as new ones that showed up during the past four years. That's what happens after an election. The guy who was elected gets to nominate people for job openings in the courts. Matter of fact, one of the reasons Trump was elected was specifically to fill vacancies in the supreme court so that it can get back to being a supreme court that will interpret the law instead rather than just go along with whatever the democrats tell them to. Packing the court specifically refers to increasing the number of judges for the express purpose of giving you the majority vote should any of your policies be brought before it.

Biden, along with Obama, were the ones responsible for the children in cages. You know, the guy that apparently just got elected as president? Yeah, him. He's the one who did it. Sorry, not sorry. (btw, I'm actually ok with that one as long as the living conditions aren't too egregious. You would be too if you realized the reason why they were being put there in the first place.)

As far as Fox News is concerned, yeah, not so much anymore. Of course, even when it was reliable, that hardly outdoes the combined weight of CNN, MSNBC, Facebook, Twitter, Google, the New York Times, etc. etc.

 

[Rush]

Just some facts on the above...

• The Pfizer vaccine had nothing to do with Warpspeed, there was no govt money involved in its creation.
• Lots of confederate flags on show today marching through the halls.
• Trump went one step further with "cages". Separating families and sterilsation of detained women.
• Republicans have gerrymandered districts for years.
• Republicans removed post boxes to stem the mail voting.
• Republicans removed mail sorting machines.
• Republicans stopped the Dems supreme court nominee then hypocritically installed one a week before the election to pack the Supreme Court.
• He didn't shut the border, he allowed US citizens in from China so it was a pointless exercise. The virus still got in so the border was effectively not shut.
• Republican Mitch McConnel blocked the Covid relief bill refusing to pay the $2000 which Trump and Dems wanted.

 

[Glurin]

Just some facts on the above...

• The Pfizer vaccine had nothing to do with Warpspeed, there was no govt money involved in its creation.
• Lots of confederate flags on show today marching through the halls.
• Trump went one step further with "cages". Separating families and sterilsation of detained women.
• Republicans have gerrymandered districts for years.
• Republicans removed post boxes to stem the mail voting.
• Republicans removed mail sorting machines.
• Republicans stopped the Dems supreme court nominee then hypocritically installed one a week before the election to pack the Supreme Court.
• He didn't shut the border, he allowed US citizens in from China so it was a pointless exercise. The virus still got in so the border was effectively not shut.
• Republican Mitch McConnel blocked the Covid relief bill refusing to pay the $2000 which Trump and Dems wanted.

You mean "facts", with extremely heavy emphasis on the quotation marks.

A couple snippets from HHS.gov: "July 22: HHS announced up to $1.95 billion in funds to Pfizer for the large-scale manufacturing and nationwide distribution of 100 million doses of their vaccine candidate."
“Through Operation Warp Speed, we are assembling a portfolio of vaccines to increase the odds that the American people will have at least one safe, effective vaccine as soon as the end of this year,” said HHS Secretary Alex Azar. “Depending on success in clinical trials, today’s agreement will enable the delivery of approximately 100 million doses of vaccine being developed by Pfizer and BioNTech.”

*looks at even more photos and videos* Nope. Still not a single confederate flag to be found.

Nope, sorry. Not an official policy to forcibly sterilize detained illegal immigrants and from what I've seen so far the allegations are limited to one particular facility in Georgia. Not something nationwide, let alone condoned in any way by the Trump administration.

Democrats have gerrymandered districts for years as well. It's the reason California always votes blue. (That and people have had it with democrats turning that place into a literal shithole and are fleeing to other states in droves.)

Actually the post boxes were slated to be retired anyway. Had nothing to do with mail in voting, which by the way has a long history of being problematic at best.

Same with the sorting machines. They were old and outdated, and in fact the decision to remove them predates the current postmaster general. The removal of both the boxes and the sorting machines was temporarily suspended in light of the sudden effort for mail in voting. By the way, the fact that the sudden switch to mail in voting would overwhelm the postal system regardless was also brought up and ignored by those in charge of the election system.

Yes, Republicans stopped the Dems supreme court nominee. They held the majority. This is not new or unprecedented, and Dems have done the same thing when they held the majority. Republicans also confirmed Trumps nominee when they held the majority. Also not new or unprecedented, nor is doing so court packing. Court packing is altering the structure of the court to artificially bias the outcome of cases in your favor. It is not filling a vacancy left behind when a judge passes away. That's called, well, filling a vacancy.

You don't think he'd have taken any flak for preventing U.S. citizens from coming home? You don't think the virus would have gotten in anyway? There's only so much the government can reasonably do. Especially if you want to stop short of what a certain other country decided to do, which apparently was quite effective in preventing the virus from spreading. All they had to do was shoot anyone who had it and ban their people from saying the word coronavirus.

So McConnel blocked increasing a check from $600 to $2000 (lets face it, both are chump change.), the origin of which was tossed in as an afterthought to a gigantic omnibus bill just so it could be referred to as the coronavirus relief bill. And uh, who was it that blocked every single effort before that again even when many in her own party started to turn against her for it and her good buddies in the media started saying "you know you could take 'yes' for an answer"? Oh, that's right. It was Nancy.


Honestly, with all these "facts" that I've seen coming from the democrats and their media lackeys, I'm constantly having this scene pop into my head lately:

 

[krischan]

Wow, what a disgrace. A mob storms the Capitol, a kind of hallowed hall of the country, and the guards couldn't prevent it. As if something like that couldn't be predicted after all that nonsense having come from Trump. I'm not blaming the guards, but the lack of preparation.

What Trump did was giving confidence to the dumb and showing them they are many and that they can be strong. Independently from how and why he did it, they would have figured it out learned it sooner or later. The problem with doing that to the dumb is that it might be anything, no matter how silly or outrageous... after all, they are dumb.

Stupidity is bad, laziness is bad. Now you might think that stupidity together with laziness is the worst combination, but it isn't. Stupidity plus ambition is worst. I'm reluctant to make nazi comparisons, so before doing from what might like that for those who don't watch closely, I have to point out that Trump is no nazi, neither by his attitude nor by this choice of words or methods. The way the nazis used their outrageous "arguments" to get the masses on their side (not their "arguments" themselves) looks a bit like what happened in the US, however.

Now that the masses know that they are strong, something has to be done. You cannot suppress them in a constitutional state with human rights etc., so you have to bring them reason and knowledge. Perhaps you think that's their own job and you would be right, but this isn't a matter of doing what they are responsible for. In order to be willing to gain reason and knowledge, you need exactly that and that's what they are lacking. I don't know how difficult that is and perhaps most of the already existing dumb people are a lost cause (it's simply a matter of people being free to do what they want which includes learning what they want), but in that case you have to prevent the next generations from turning into the same kind of stupid people. A lack of intellect probably cannot be undone, but you can fix a lot of the symptoms with education.

Trump isn't the cause of it all, he's a symptom of the problems of the US society (and other societies have different and, usually in case of less developed countries, much more severe problems, for the sake of completeness). The US needs changes that deal with their societal and political weaknesses more properly. Otherwise the next Trump is probably right around the corner.

 

[Glurin]

Trump isn't the cause of it all, he's a symptom of the problems of the US society (and other societies have different and, usually in case of less developed countries, much more severe problems, for the sake of completeness). The US needs changes that deal with their societal and political weaknesses more properly. Otherwise the next Trump is probably right around the corner.

On that much, we can agree. Trump was elected because people were sick and tired of the way they have been treated by those who are supposed to represent them. They were tired of being dismissed as ignorant, stupid and racist for no other reason than that they disagreed with certain policy decisions. They were tired of having people they put their faith in to represent their interests and fight for them turn around and stab them in the back the moment they took office.

And they're still tired of it. So tired at this point that it would not surprise me in the slightest if secession becomes a serious topic of discussion within the next couple of years. Texas already put people on notice that this could become the case. Yeah, I know, it's Texas. They're always talking about it. The difference is that this time it was in the form of an official floating a referendum on the subject.

Naturally anyone who brings it up will immediately be labeled as racists trying to revive the confederacy. (Fun historical fact, the confederacy was run by those who would later become the democrat party.) And of course people will be screaming nonsense that the matter was settled in the civil war and therefore can't be done. (The British basically said the same thing. That you're not "allowed" to break away. As did Russia, and pretty much every nation on earth that had a people break away from them. Frankly it's the one right that can't ever be taken away, no matter what anyone says or what laws are written, as it's really just the national version of leaving an abusive spouse.) But I just don't see the democrats doing anything at all to mend the wounds. Quite the opposite. I think they're going to do exactly what they say they will and ram through the most extremist, Marxist agenda items yet with zero regard for the consequences or the opinions of anyone not in lock step with them. In fact, there's reason to be concerned that they may very well take that final step into full blown fascism by "educating" those who don't agree.

That's not something to be considered lightly, by the way. The U.S. didn't just declare independence from England because they didn't want their tea to be taxed. There was in fact a litany of longstanding grievances that were spelled out in the Declaration. If, and I stress the word "if", this does come up for serious consideration, any state doing so is going to have to do the same and explain in detail the many reasons why. It can't just be because the results of a single presidential election are suspect.

Really hoping it doesn't come to that because if it does, it's gonna be really ugly. Secession is that point where you've reached an impasse, reconciliation is impossible, and you're giving the other party a choice between letting you go or start killing each other. It's not very often that the former is the chosen path.

 

[zemaj]

I'm shocked... truly and deeply... that people who were praising the wanton destruction of residential areas, private businesses, and public property, the perpetration of violence against citizens, the disruption of commerce, etc. are somehow appalled by the direct (and honestly, mostly peaceful) storming of a government building. One was pretty explicitly against The People, the other explicitly against what protestors perceive as a corrupt government.

It's almost like the real concern here is politics, not people.

I'll be totally honest here, I'm down with anyone, for any reason, peacefully storming a government building. Particularly when the apparent alternative is burning down (the low income, under-developed) half of a major metropolis.

 

[zemaj]

And for the record, I would like to see actual numbers for how many Great Orange Idiot supporters have crossed hammer and sickle tattoos, or raised-fist tattoos. Its smoke and mirrors... I bet as a direct result of this, more laws will be passed that directly limit liberties of the masses. Now, who has been wanting that exact thing for years? (Ok, all government, really, but I believe my point is made)

EDIT:
To whit, Marinus Van Der Lubbe. Since I am a lowly American armchair intellectual, who is frequently accused of being a conspiracy theorist, would anyone possibly more aware of the circumstance and ongoing controversy surrounding this historical figure care to enlighten the group as to both? (*nudges* @krischan )


EDIT2:
It's especially poignant now that they are claiming to have found inexplicably unused incendiary and explosive devices in the aftermath.

 

[superdave]

I haven't heard the speech, so I don't know the content or the context.

As for the flags though, I just went through multiple videos from multiple angles and multiple times of day. I saw a lot of American flags, Trump flags, Gadsden flags, but you know what I don't see?

Confederate flags.

Yeah, a grand total of zero in over a dozen different videos of the crowd. Oh I'm sure there's one somewhere. Like one guy in the background that the usual suspects will likely latch onto and blow up into an army like they usually do, but it is definitely not representative of the group.

 

[superdave]

*looks at even more photos and videos* Nope. Still not a single confederate flag to be found.

You aren't looking very hard.

 

[superdave]

Here's another one....image 11.

I can keep doing this but I think my point has been made.

In photos: Donald Trump supporters breach Capitol, riot over election results - All Photos - UPI.com

Supporters of President Donald Trump gather in Washington, D.C., on January 5 and 6, 2021, to protest the results of the 2020 presidential election as Congress meets to certify President-elect Joe Biden's victory. Trump addressed one of the rallies on Wednesday. The crowds later stormed the U.S...

www.upi.com

 

[zemaj]

@superdave
Well, congratulations on proving that there are a few idiots in any large group, that may or may not reflect the group as a whole. As soon as you can find one pic that shows more battleflags than American flags, I, for one, will admit you may well have a point other than that.

You have to admit, that last one looks kinda sus, though...

 

[superdave]

You have to admit, that last one looks kinda sus, though...

Ken Cedeno from UPI took hundreds of pics during the protest. Are every one of his pics suspect just because they don't fit your narrative?

How about this one? The guy might as well been wearing a white hood and sheet.

 

[superdave]

@superdave
As soon as you can find one pic that shows more battleflags than American flags, I, for one, will admit you may well have a point other than that.

What was the ratio of Trump flags to American flags? After yesterday's shenanigans the Trump flag will one day equate to those Confederate flags and that noose. It will become a symbol of hate and racism.

 

[zemaj]

What was the ratio of Trump flags to American flags? After yesterday's shenanigans the Trump flag will one day equate to those Confederate flags and that noose. It will become a symbol of hate and racism.

You are the one twisting things to fit a narrative now. I think it's pretty obvious the noose (and the gallows erected in the parking area) were meant directly to threaten what the group perceived as traitorous lawmakers, the traditional (in America) way of dealing with whom is hanging. I actually thought as soon as I saw the gallows, "Wow... you know, a guillotine would be far more appropriate."

Is it insensitive, and not well thought out, absolutely. But what about this seems well thought out, on the surface, to you, exactly? Maybe instead of going with the hyper-sensitive over-reaction, you could try looking at the surrounding implications? I would point out there were several non-caucasian protestors, but I'm sure you noticed this, unless you were just skimming for "OMG! RACISTS!"

As for flags, I honestly didn't count, as I was focused on the people in the videos I saw, less so thier props... and that's not true, I was hardcore scanning for firearms, and guess who had the only ones I saw? Hint: not the protestors.

 

[zemaj]

Also, I'll go ahead and admit to having not seen as much of all this as some may have. I was at my second job for the majority of the time this took place, and was honestly unaware until after I got off, which left me the time between getting off work and getting in bed to eat, shower, catch what news/media I coul--HOLY SHIT!... and spent more time than I should have looking into it. This morning, I've been busy posting here, fb, and checking the casualty-count/aftermath reports inbetween work (primary job) as I could (probably more than I should, tbh). So I may not be totally informed of every nuance... but i can say for certain only one direct casualty was incurred, when cops shot a protestor (other 3 were medical complications that may have happened regardless), and damages to several barricades and a couple windows. Sounds mostly peaceful, in fact.

 

[zemaj]

This fits, so I'll just leave it here...



EDIT:
grrr... just realized it says Whitehouse... I'll modify as I am able to make it more accurate.

 

[superdave]

I'm sure there are good people on both sides.