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The Russia-Ukraine Situation

krischan said:
The US are currently doing a lot of silly things, like bullying their allies and friends, making thought plays about invasions of NATO allies and abandoning those who put trust into them.

I would agree that Europe has to stand more on its own feet and invest more care into settling disputes in their vicinity. I could even accept that the US stops military aid for free and make a "weapons for resources" deal while Europe is offering what has been provided by the US so far. However, negotiating a "peace and Russia can keep conquered territory" offer with Russia, that's stabbing in the back of the Ukraine. So a country invades another for no acceptable reason, conquers a part of it and then a peace deal is made that allows them to keep a bit? That's like stealing two pairs of shoes and receiving a pardon by giving back one pair and keeping the other.

The EU and Ukraine should ignore these silly ideas. Maybe it could even be reasonable to offer certain territories where there are more Russians then Ukrainians, I'm not sure, but even if that's the case: If anybody at all should come up with fuch an offer, then it's the Ukraine.

Trump got more than 50% of the votes, so the people of the USA as a whole are responsible for him being at the helm once again, despite him having announced a lot of what he's doing right now. Some time ago in this thread, I wrote that Russia seems to have the support of a majority of their population regarding the "special military operation", so my conclusion was "F you, Russia", even if some Russians have been intimidated into holding still (I'm not buying the "but they are manipulated by the media" excuse in full). I wouldn't go that far with the US, but address it with "WTF, USA?", however.
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This is simply unacceptable. I also do not understand this nonsense. I do not understand at all why Putin is treated so politely. A monster man, kills peaceful people, attacked a peaceful country and at the same time he denies everything and says that it is for the good. He said that Ukrainians are Nazis... I do not understand, so has he already exterminated all the Nazis in Ukraine???
If I had the opportunity, I would kill the main Nazi - Putin!
 
It's time to cast the US to the wind and ignore it. The current administration has no idea about history, geopolitics, well just about anything to do with global affairs.

The EU must not capitulate on the issue of Ukraine. They understand the dangers of the buffoon's proposals and what it would mean globally, we have been there. The US is going to be in a heap of trouble at home soon enough due to the administration's actions and it can not be relied on as a force for good or ally.

The EU must focus on containing Putin, protecting Ukraine, and do this alone if need be.
 
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So if the essence of this is that we have to get things settled without the US, then we have to do it ourselves. Trump may talk with Putin about whatever he wants, but that might not be our or the Ukraine's interests. We will have to do what is right for us. F U Trump!
 
It's not that the current administration has no idea, they/he don't care.
 
At the end it's Russia and the Ukraine who decide under which circumstances the war ends. The Ukraine might keep on fighting, with the Europeans still supporting the Ukraine, no matter what Putin and Trump may work out among themselves.
 
krischan said:
The US are currently doing a lot of silly things, like bullying their allies and friends, making thought plays about invasions of NATO allies and abandoning those who put trust into them.
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USA doesnt have friends. And for USA "allies" is just a term for countries that they can use for their own benefit and sacrifise them when its time, like Saddam and Bin Laden. And USA wont hesitate sacrifising Europe if it comes to that.
 
krischan said:
So a country invades another for no acceptable reason, conquers a part of it and then a peace deal is made that allows them to keep a bit? That's like stealing two pairs of shoes and receiving a pardon by giving back one pair and keeping the other.
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I would say when a terror organisation like Nato/USA overthrows a government on the border of Russia, installs a puppet-regime supported by neo-nazi groups, who then starts attacking its own citizens cause they reject the coup and then wants to install missiles 4 minutes from Moscow is an acceptable reason.
 
krischan said:
At the end it's Russia and the Ukraine who decide under which circumstances the war ends. The Ukraine might keep on fighting, with the Europeans still supporting the Ukraine, no matter what Putin and Trump may work out among themselves.
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In the end, its Russia and USA that decides if the war is over or not. Ukraina cant fight alone and they cant even fight if EU is supporting them.
 
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ariashyne said:
This is simply unacceptable. I also do not understand this nonsense. I do not understand at all why Putin is treated so politely. A monster man, kills peaceful people, attacked a peaceful country and at the same time he denies everything and says that it is for the good. He said that Ukrainians are Nazis... I do not understand, so has he already exterminated all the Nazis in Ukraine???
If I had the opportunity, I would kill the main Nazi - Putin!
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Is it unacceptable? We didnt have a problem when Obama, Stoltenberg++ was the monsters in Libya and Syria. If anything, the Russian forces are going at it with alot more concern for civilian losses than USA/Nato has done. Just for the record, Im not saying they havent killed civilians, Im saying they dont use american tactics in civilian areas that is carpetbombing absolutely everything.
Also, the "peaceful people" and "peaceful country" murdered thousands of its own people.

And if you think Putin is the main nazi, like Hitler, I think you are a coward for not taking up arms and report for duty. Cause if he is the new Hitler, its every citizen's duty to do everything one can do to take him out.
 
Rush said:
It's time to cast the US to the wind and ignore it. The current administration has no idea about history, geopolitics, well just about anything to do with global affairs.

The EU must not capitulate on the issue of Ukraine. They understand the dangers of the buffoon's proposals and what it would mean globally, we have been there. The US is going to be in a heap of trouble at home soon enough due to the administration's actions and it can not be relied on as a force for good or ally.

The EU must focus on containing Putin, protecting Ukraine, and do this alone if need be.
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If it was possible now, I would gladly cast USA to the wind. Unfortunately, our own politicians have screwed us and our countries over so hard with its dependency of USA.

We(Europe) doesnt have a choice in this matter, without screwing ourselves over even more, so capitulate in the issue of Ukraine is the only reasonable way. The only other way, is to put Nato forces on the ground in Ukraine and escelate the situation, but then we are in WW3 and its goodbye to everyone.
Cause the thing is, Russia sees Nato-missiles in Ukraine as an existential threath, now we may agree or disagree with it being an existential threath, but that doesnt matter as long as Russia sees it like that. Would USA accept Russian or Chinese nukes in Mexico? No, they would bomb the shit out of them before that happens.
 
The EU will step up now. I think the signs are there. Whether the US is along for the ride remains to be seen but the language being used by the orange moron is inflammatory and it's pushing the Russian propaganda. Who would have thought the US would end up being part of the Axis and not the Allies?


I hope that the EU steps up and isolates the US further because China is watching closely and the US is going to find itself in a really bad position unless they fall in line with the EU and not Russia. Chances of that happening are 50/50 right now but the US voters have put the world in real peril only thinking about egg and gas prices.

Also remember, Ukraine removed their nukes to appease Russia and keep stability. Look where that has got them, betrayal of the highest order.

The EU has finally woken up though, just hope it's not too late.
 
Rush said:
Also remember, Ukraine removed their nukes to appease Russia and keep stability. Look where that has got them, betrayal of the highest order.
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They werent Ukraine's nukes. They were Sovjet's nukes, that had adminstrative seat in Moscow, all codes etc was in Moscow. So its natural that these are now Russia's nukes.

And we all should be very very greatful Ukraine doesnt have nukes now, those mad men would have started something that could never been undone with them.
 
Rush said:
I hope that the EU steps up and isolates the US further because China is watching closely and the US is going to find itself in a really bad position unless they fall in line with the EU and not Russia. Chances of that happening are 50/50 right now but the US voters have put the world in real peril only thinking about egg and gas prices.
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I hope so too. Europa has been USA's partner in crime for too long, we have followed the warcriminals Clinton, Bush, Obama and Biden like idiots and ruined our own economy along the way. We need to step up military spending, throw USA out of Nato, invite Russia into our alliance, start getting cheap energy from them again and become an equal to USA and China.
 
I agree Trump is at best incredibly incompetent, at worst an absolute traitor and Russian puppet. I hope the American people rise to the occasion, realize this, and end his tyrannical reign. I don't see how Western Europe embracing Putin's brand of fascism will help them at all.
 
Noodle said:
I agree Trump is at best incredibly incompetent, at worst an absolute traitor and Russian puppet. I hope the American people rise to the occasion, realize this, and end his tyrannical reign. I don't see how Western Europe embracing Putin's brand of fascism will help them at all.
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And this incompetent guy is getting the war stopped. Something Biden and the EU havent done in 3 years. So either Biden, Scholz, Macron++ are even more incompetent or they want the war.
I suspect the latter. As Assange said "the goal is to have an endless war, not a succesful war"
 
Krem, please reboot your brain and apply some logic to your reasoning.

Scholz is pretty reluctant to let help come to Ukraine, haven't you noticed that? Germany could have sent way more weaponry to them than they did. But I guess you feel pretty comfortable in your bubble. Germany does not want a war in Europe. In fact, Germany suffers particularly badly from the lack of Russian gas. A "Russiay delivers gas to us, we abandon Ukraine" would be more in our interest.

Trump isn't doing what's in the interest of the US, but what pleases his ego. Many countries pointed out what they think of HIM, not of the US, and he decides to do something unto them what he probably perceives as a punishment. So FU Trump, kiss my ass!

It seems that the US aren't a reliable partner anymore. That's not the fault of any singular US forum member, but it seems that the US as a whole elect a president like Trump at any time. Who will be his successor?

Krem, do you believe that Norway is safe from Russia once there is no NATO anymore and people like you decide about Norway's alliances? If Russia decides to attack Norway once NATO is gone, why should anybody come to their defense? If the EU decides to abandon Ukraine, why not abandoning Norway as well?
 
Scholz has been a bit reluctant, but still have given lots of money, tanks and other weapons to Ukraine. Just look at Rheinmetall stocks since 2022. I think Scholz knows what really caused this war, but is afraid to speak the truth, so he gives a bit but not max of what he should have given if he really thinks Putin is the new Hitler and that Russia is coming for us.

And if he really cared for the Germany and the German ppl, he would have come forward with who blew up the Nord Stream and demand compensation from them. And then start to get cheap gas from Russia again.
And great job Germany with shutting down the nuclear power plants.
Now Merz is gonna be in charge. That guy is truly dangerous for Germany, the worst leader for Germany since Hitler. He will **** up Germany even worse than what Merkel and Scholz have done.

I think NATO will keep excisting, with or without USA and yes I do believe Norway is safe without USA. I even think Norway would be safe without a NATO at all. Finland was safe up to they decided to join the terrorist organisation that is NATO. Now they have missiles directed at them. Have a strong defense, dont go doing warcrimes in other countries(like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria etc) and its fine.

You see, its when NATO countries attack other nations and at the same time moves more than an inch eastwards and breaking promises, that someone might get the impression that they are kinda aggressive. And when one know that NATO has rejected memebership for USSR once and Russia twice aswell, its clear who the aggressor is when it comes to USA/NATO vs Russia.

If we really want NATO to stay, we should toss out USA and get Russia in.
 
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