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The Russia-Ukraine Situation

-This is a proxy-war between the west and Russia - Boris Johnson
-Nato expansions are the reason for Russia's invasion - Jens Stoltenberg
-There was a peacedeal happening between Ukraine and Russia which UK and USA stopped - Naftali Bennet( Israeli PM)

This clearly is a war instigated by the west, we wanted this war and still want it by the looks of the outrage by the current peacetalks.


We are the baddies. We are the world's terrorists.

We fucked around and we are now finding out.
 
When ever there has been conflict, it's not been done as NATO. NATO is a defensive organisation at its core. Sure, the UK and US got involved in stuff like the Iraq war but that was not NATO.

Anyway, looks like the EU is stepping up to put Ukraine in a better position with more NATO funding and the US are outliers in all this now. We'll have to wait and see what happens when the UK PM drops into the Whitehouse later this week. Should get a better idea of where we are at then.
 
Rush said:
When ever there has been conflict, it's not been done as NATO. NATO is a defensive organisation at its core. Sure, the UK and US got involved in stuff like the Iraq war but that was not NATO.
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I did say Nato countries, not Nato as an organisation.
But I could do that aswell: Yugoslavia? Libya? And you havent heard of Nato's out-of-areas opertations? Please, its pretty obvious that Nato arent just defensive anymore.

And up to now, Nato=American interests with the UK following like a puppy.
 
Rush said:
Anyway, looks like the EU is stepping up to put Ukraine in a better position with more NATO funding and the US are outliers in all this now. We'll have to wait and see what happens when the UK PM drops into the Whitehouse later this week. Should get a better idea of where we are at then.
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This is maybe the worst idea from the EU-regime leaders Ive seen. Why are we feeding an animal thats already dead? This war is lost, Russia beat us. And the Russian army is now so battle-hardened that its the best army in the world atm.
Also, I dont rule out tactical-nukes being used by Russia if EU troops are on its doorsteps, actually I expect it. Russia doesnt **** around when they say this is an existential threath to them.

But yeah, the upcoming week(s) are VERY interesting to say the least :) The near future of Europe is being decided.
 
Krem, I think your point of view is based on unfounded insinuations of motives, falsehoods and lies. I'm fully behind supporting Ukraine with weapons, beyond what we are doing now.

What caused that war? Not your assumptions about the motives of those in the west, but the Russian government. Ukraine is a sovereign nation, they are free to decide which alliances they want to join. Russia has no say in that and it's not a justification at all to invade Ukraine. There is no NATO threat of invading Russia. It would be politically and economically pointless and besides, Russia has an impressive history of repelling invaders who were supposedly superior (WW1 doesn't really count, they were in a revolution when Germany defeated them). Russia has been rejected by NATO because they they aren't trustworthy. That's not an aggression at all.

Since Trump is in office, I would agree that the US membership in NATO has become useless. If the US stance doesn't become better soon (which I doubt), we will have to take things in our hands. What would you think about France, Germany, Poland and another few European countries starting a new alliance, cancelling the "don't build nukes" treaty and building a thousand nukes ourselves? That might not be to the liking of the US, but to be honest, I care as little about the current interests of the US than their current government cares about us. Russia in the NATO or in that new hypothetical alliance? No thanks. Even if they left Ukraine right now, I wouldn't support lifting the embargo until they have turned into a state with foreign policies that would be halfway acceptable for me.
 
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krischan said:
What caused that war? Not your assumptions about the motives of those in the west, but the Russian government. Ukraine is a sovereign nation, they are free to decide which alliances they want to join. Russia has no say in that and it's not a justification at all to invade Ukraine. There is no NATO threat of invading Russia. It would be politically and economically pointless and besides, Russia has an impressive history of repelling invaders who were supposedly superior (WW1 doesn't really count, they were in a revolution when Germany defeated them). Russia has been rejected by NATO because they they aren't trustworthy. That's not an aggression at all.
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Russia do have a say in which militaryalliances Ukraine can join or not join. How can I say this, because Russia spoke when invading Ukraine. We can cry over how unfair that is and how mean Russia are, but those are the facts. Its the same if Mexico wanna join a military alliance with Russia or China, USA will bomb them back to the stoneage if that happens.

And Ukraine isnt a sovereign nation. USA couped it in 2014 and has had its puppets running it ever since.

And we can say that Nato isnt a threat to Russia all we want. The question is how Russia sees it. From Russia's view Nato broke a promise in '99 when the first Nato-expansion happened. Then they see that USA/Nato starts wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. And then expand Nato more in 2004. Then Nato starts talking about getting Georgia and Ukraine in in 2008 and then in 2009 another expansion. Then Nato/USA bombs Libya and kills Gadaffi. Then they start going after Assad and Syria. And another expansion in 2017 and another one in 2020.
If people cant see how the Russians might think that Nato isnt agressive and moves closer to their border, I cant help them. They are fools imo and should never speak about war and geo-politics ever again, cause clearly those people havent got a clue.
 
krischan said:
Since Trump is in office, I would agree that the US membership in NATO has become useless. If the US stance doesn't become better soon (which I doubt), we will have to take things in our hands. What would you think about France, Germany, Poland and another few European countries starting a new alliance, cancelling the "don't build nukes" treaty and building a thousand nukes ourselves? That might not be to the liking of the US, but to be honest, I care as little about the current interests of the US than their current government cares about us. Russia in the NATO or in that new hypothetical alliance? No thanks. Even if they left Ukraine right now, I wouldn't support lifting the embargo until they have turned into a state with foreign policies that would be halfway acceptable for me.
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First of all, personally, I would prefer all the Scandinavian countries have their own military-alliance. And France, UK, Germany++ go together and build more nukes is the worst idea in the history of mankind. The world needs less nukes, not more. These European leaders we have now are a danger to humanity. Scholtz, Mers, Macron, Starmer++ are all corrupt af fools who should have a bullet in their heads for treason against Europe and mankind.
 
krischan said:
Russia has been rejected by NATO because they they aren't trustworthy.
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But you wanna have Germany producing mass amount of weapons, big army and nukes? Germany are the LAST country we should have arming themselves. Germany have more than anyone proven themselves incapable of behaving when getting hold of weapons. Germany are the least trustworthy of all countries in the entire world.
 
We don't cry about how unfair the Russia invasion is. We deliver weapons and other support because of the invasion.

The USA did not do a coup in the Ukraine. They wouldn't have succeeded and Russia schemed a lot more there in order to try getting their will there. We don't really know what hidden operations were made there, but do you really believe that a majority in the Ukraine supports Russia? If that was the case, they would have lost the war long ago.

If the NATO really promised Russia not to allow countries of the former Warsaw pact or of formar soviet republic in, why don't the Russians have it in written? I doubt that they would be so stupid not to demand that if it really was promised explicitly. Some NATO person said something about NATO plans to some Russian at some time, yawn. That's just hearsay.

Regarding the actions of the USA in the recent decades, that's pretty much what superpowers are expected to do. I'm not in favour of all of them as well, but Russia did the same. However, the USA didn't invade and take territories from other countries to that degree by force since Maxico war... which was in 1846-48. Or since they took the Phillipies away from Spain in 1898. This is happenning in Europe, so European countries are going to react. In Africa, Asia or the middle east... well, that's somewhere else and yes, the USA and Russia got away with it because they were so much stronger than the others. In Ukraine, that seems not to be the case.

I agree that the Ukraine isn't as much as a flawless democracy, but the Russian propaganda about it being full of nazis is a lie. It's not a justification for an invasion at all.

Regarding more nukes, OK, I exaggerated. I don't want us to have them. France already has enough, so we don't need more. However, having less nukes isn't a matter of just a single country or side. It has to happen on all sides I don't think that France or Britain should have less before Russia reduces their 20 times stronger arsenal.

Scholz, Merz, Macron etc. deserving a bullet through their heads in your opinion is so outrageous that I'm not going to address it. It tells enough without commenting it.

Regarding Germany being untrustworthy, that's completely wrong. Germay of today is far away from what happened in WW1 or WW2. Even the AfD is far away, although a few nazis crept into that party, but it might be the case that you aren't much disturbed by that because that party supports a couple of your points. Also, Germany had way more weapons during the cold war. We gave them up later. I could as well say that Norway is the most unreliable country in the world because of people like you, because a couple of Norwegians supported the nazis or perhaps even because of the Vikings 1200 years ago?
 
krischan said:
The USA did not do a coup in the Ukraine. They wouldn't have succeeded and Russia schemed a lot more there in order to try getting their will there. We don't really know what hidden operations were made there, but do you really believe that a majority in the Ukraine supports Russia? If that was the case, they would have lost the war long ago.
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They did. Do you know I know? Cause they admitted it.
 
krischan said:
If the NATO really promised Russia not to allow countries of the former Warsaw pact or of formar soviet republic in, why don't the Russians have it in written? I doubt that they would be so stupid not to demand that if it really was promised explicitly. Some NATO person said something about NATO plans to some Russian at some time, yawn. That's just hearsay.
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No, these promises are very well known. Plenty of transcripts from the talks are available to read.
 
krischan said:
Regarding the actions of the USA in the recent decades, that's pretty much what superpowers are expected to do. I'm not in favour of all of them as well, but Russia did the same. However, the USA didn't invade and take territories from other countries to that degree by force since Maxico war...
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Are you sure about that? Cause since mid 2010 USA has occupied 1/3 of Syria, the part with most of the oil ofc. And again, how do I know? cause they have said so.
 
krischan said:
I agree that the Ukraine isn't as much as a flawless democracy, but the Russian propaganda about it being full of nazis is a lie. It's not a justification for an invasion at all.
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You should read up on Stepan Bandera, OUN and OUN-B. Ukraine now are putting up statues of Bandera, naming streets after nazis, having a national holiday of commemoration of Bandera and honoring the work of OUN and OUN-B. Their soldiers today uses nazi symbols en mass. All the major news outlets, CNN, BBC+++ all had article after article up to 2022 about the nazi-problem in Ukraine. Ukraine was known for two things, nazis and trafficking. The Simon Wiesenthal Center wrote about it. Israel was outraged when Ukraine city Lviv declared 2019 as "Stepan Bandera year".

These facts about Ukraine has somehow just silently gone away from media after 2022.
 
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Here are a few samples of articles about the nazis in Ukraine, all before 2022. And we are supporting these guys. It makes me sick to my stomach. And Im a former Green Beret, nato-soldier and second lieutenant, if Russia do attack Norway, I will not defend my country after we have given weapons and money to nazis.
And thats why I think our dear leaders in Europe deserves a bullet. I can add Bush, Obama, Biden, Merkel, Hollande, Stoltenberg++ to that list.
 

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