Nihilism & Nationalism

[krischan]

The German KSK (elite army forces) and a few helicopters are going to be sent to there, for rescue missions. It's believed that there are still a few hundreds of Germans stuck in Kabul. I guess other countries are having similar plans and I doubt that this will go without fights.

It's interesting that this isn't done in secret (like the liberation of the hostages in Mogadishu in 1977 by the GSG-9), so it might be possible that it's mainly meant as a threat, so the Taliban will let foreigners leave. Let's see how well that goes.

If there's still a few hundreds of Germans there, then it's probably a few thousands of other foreign citizens as well. If I was a Taliban leader, I would demand something for letting them go. Let's say unfreezing the Afghan money in foreign banks or diplomatic recognition. However, I don't know well which other problems the Taliban still have and which deals have already been made with the former occupiers.

 

[jmervyn]

The problem is in how it was conducted. This is an absolute embarrassment of epic proportions.

The Biden Administration continues to try to blame Trump for the decision, despite the destruction or reversal of nearly every single one of Trump's policies purely in order to erase the supposed stain which the fascists claim he caused.

It was nice to see that Parliament officially condemned the senile, racist Pedo-fool.

Meanwhile, he continues to lie to America about how this has not been the greatest military-political fiasco since Pearl Harbor. Americans are trying to pass their children to the Marines while the Taliban beat other Americans, yet this subhuman scumbag literally claims that's not happening.

He even was vile enough to claim that the picture was from 4-5 days ago, and therefore presumably irrelevant, when it was 2 days before his disastrous, heavily censored interview with crotch-sucker Stephanopolous.

 

[krischan]

Yeah, let's say the USA blew it. I don't care whose fault it is. Feel free to blame whoever you like.

 

[Noodle]

Merv, please go into great detail on how you think Trump would have handled this differently, specifically what he would have done, and why you think so.

 

[Glurin]

Oh no you don't. This failure belongs to Biden and his administration. He is the one who made the call. He is the one who ignored all the warnings coming from virtually everyone at all levels except the SJW fringe. He and his team are the ones demonstrably in complete denial of reality on multiple fronts.

Trump's plan, as stated by Trump himself, was getting the civilians and equipment out first, pulling out the fighting units and then finally bombing the shit out of anything left behind so the Taliban couldn't use it.

Biden's plan was to flee like cowards while pretending to be a great hero for bringing the troops home before September. Nevermind all the civilians and equipment being left behind. They'll be fine. There's no way the Taliban would ever take over again. They're no threat at all. In Biden's own words spoken in July: "The Taliban is not the south — the North Vietnamese army. They’re not — they’re not remotely comparable in terms of capability. There’s going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in the — of the United States from Afghanistan. It is not at all comparable"


BTW, earlier in that same conference:

"Q Mr. President, thank you very much. Your own intelligence community has assessed that the Afghan government will likely collapse.

THE PRESIDENT: That is not true.

Q Is it — can you please clarify what they have told you about whether that will happen or not?

THE PRESIDENT: That is not true. They did not — they didn’t — did not reach that conclusion. "


Meanwhile the intelligence community was noting that the Taliban was the strongest it's been since 2001.

 

[Noodle]

Oh no you don't. This failure belongs to Biden and his administration. He is the one who made the call. He is the one who ignored all the warnings coming from virtually everyone at all levels except the SJW fringe. He and his team are the ones demonstrably in complete denial of reality on multiple fronts.

Trump's plan, as stated by Trump himself, was getting the civilians and equipment out first, pulling out the fighting units and then finally bombing the shit out of anything left behind so the Taliban couldn't use it.

Biden's plan was to flee like cowards while pretending to be a great hero for bringing the troops home before September. Nevermind all the civilians and equipment being left behind. They'll be fine. There's no way the Taliban would ever take over again. They're no threat at all. In Biden's own words spoken in July: "The Taliban is not the south — the North Vietnamese army. They’re not — they’re not remotely comparable in terms of capability. There’s going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in the — of the United States from Afghanistan. It is not at all comparable"


BTW, earlier in that same conference:

"Q Mr. President, thank you very much. Your own intelligence community has assessed that the Afghan government will likely collapse.

THE PRESIDENT: That is not true.

Q Is it — can you please clarify what they have told you about whether that will happen or not?

THE PRESIDENT: That is not true. They did not — they didn’t — did not reach that conclusion. "


Meanwhile the intelligence community was noting that the Taliban was the strongest it's been since 2001.

1) I asked Mervyn, not his pet.
2) You still owe the board an apology for the filth you previously spread as if it were remotely truthful.

 

[Glurin]

I will never apologize for speaking the truth, Noodle. If anyone should apologize it's you for being every bit as much in denial as your great messiah Joe "What-was-I-saying-again" Biden.

 

[Noodle]

I will never apologize for speaking the truth, Noodle. If anyone should apologize it's you for being every bit as much in denial as your great messiah Joe "What-was-I-saying-again" Biden.

I guess you conveniently forgot your blatant lying about the mythical re- education camps you claimed the democrats were establishing. You know, the thing that destroyed whatever remained of your credibility.

 

[Glurin]

Did I say they were building them? No, I said it had entered the rhetoric, which is in fact the first step to building them so it's best to call them out on it before then.

I see what you're trying to do though. Too bad, it won't work. You're not going to distract from the unmitigated disaster that your savior Biden and his cronies have predictably become. In truth, this Saigon 2.0 really only highlights the corruption and incompetency that permeates the entire democrat party leadership and their media lackeys. Say what you will about Trump, he did at least manage to bring their insanity out into the open. They just can't seem to defend their actions without using the "T" word.

 

[Noodle]

You're lying again, or rather, still. The only rhetoric your mythical camps entered was your fellow cult members.

 

[Noodle]

Also, Liar, go ahead and use the search functionality and find a single instance of me supporting Biden.

Does Mervyn ever let you in the house at night, or does he just chain you up in the back yard?

 

[Glurin]

Also, Liar, go ahead and use the search functionality and find a single instance of me supporting Biden.

Ok, here you go.

Merv, please go into great detail on how you think Trump would have handled this differently, specifically what he would have done, and why you think so.

That's you defending Biden. Didn't even need the search function. It was only around half a dozen posts up.

 

[Noodle]

Ok, here you go.



That's you defending Biden. Didn't even need the search function. It was only around half a dozen posts up.

Nope. Asking someone to back up a statement with facts isn't taking an opposite position. Try again, liar.

 

[Glurin]

Looks like news just broke that there are no plans whatsoever to hold anyone accountable for the total **** up in Afghanistan. At least not within the Biden administration. Doing so would be admitting they made a mistake, and they can't have that now can they? "No Americans have been stranded in Afghanistan." is their official position.

The situation is so bad though that pretty much anyone who doesn't have a constant drip from an IV of the No Trumps Cult kool-aid is demanding answers. Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative, Christian, Athiest, American, British, French, everyone. The shear magnitude of this failure is finally forcing them to realize that they actually need reasoning other than "but Trump" on policy decisions.

Here's something else of note. Trump did in fact give the order to pull out of Afghanistan shortly before he left office. It was one of his campaign promises to get us completely out of there and he was hoping to have it done by then. However, after listening to his advisors, he altered the plan so that 2,500 troops would still be there after January specifically to avoid this very situation. Biden then took over and, well, here we are after seven months of him going out of his way to overturn all of his predecessors policies and accomplishments (because Trump). Except this one apparently, according to his administration's statements on the matter. Seven months where he could have reversed course and decided to add troops instead. Seven months where they could have been planning, organizing and implementing an orderly withdrawal as opposed to this chaos. In fact, he made it even worse by moving up the original withdrawal date, which was September 11.

By the way, guess who negotiated the troop withdrawal from Iraq in 2011, which was ultimately reversed three years later. That would be Vice President Joseph Robinnette Biden Jr. Just an interesting little footnote.

 

[Talga Vasternich]

Yeah, let's say the USA blew it. I don't care whose fault it is. Feel free to blame whoever you like.

Geez
I take a decade or so off from the OTF and find that it has moved.
But some of the same names are still going strong.

Yes, the USA blew the "get-out-of-the-graveyard-of-empires" plan (or lack thereof). Blame squarely rests on the administration in charge for unilaterally setting a withdrawal date while having no real logistics in place for the extraction of personnel and equipment.
Unless you have the idea that leaving all those weapons and vehicles furthers the military industrial complex need to have to replace.
Or that the USA should have been out of there over a decade ago, but we can't hold 43 or 44 responsible for spending countless billions to secure opium fields for pharmaceutical companies.
Of that the up-and-coming superpower now closest to the Taliban stronghold will have to deal with more modern equipment.
Nothing of this size and scope ever happens by accident, regardless of how much or little the current administration fumbled this ball.

It's good to be back.

 

[inspiredunease]

Jesus. Leave the safety of the Diablo-based boards, and stuff gets really wild. I remember all the old music and movie threads from the otf board on the old site. I don't remember this much drama though.

 

[Dredd]

Jesus. Leave the safety of the Diablo-based boards, and stuff gets really wild. I remember all the old music and movie threads from the otf board on the old site. I don't remember this much drama though.

I may not allow these sorts of topics moving forward (I've been mulling over it for quite some time). Politics and Religion have always been problematic (here as well as the old site) but in the current climate they are absolutely toxic. We'll see.

Glad you like the fun stuff though. I love our music threads so please feel free to contribute.

 

[superdave]

The problem might not be the topic.

 

[Dredd]

In my experience, it's never the topic but rather the character of the participants. Not all of them - and not all of the time either - but enough that it's a problem.

 

[Talga Vasternich]

The problem might not be the topic.

You hit the nail squarely on the head, SD. You too, Dredd.
Since there is an ever-increasing us-vs-them mentality being fostered by elected (and unelected) officials as well the media, there should be no surprise when virtually ALL topics devolve into finger pointing, name calling, and insults. There also seems to be a growing unwillingness for people to admit that the person who they are disagreeing with has valid points or can offer a different perspective, especially on the interwebs.
-Side Note: As a rule of thumb, whenever I have gotten into discussions about disagreements with people and they begin with personal insults or attacks which have nothing to do with the topic being discussed, I know I have “won” the discussion and move on, knowing anything further will not show me anything new that could make me re-evaluate my opinion or position.

As to what inspiredunease said about the OTF way back when… I believe there was just as much drama then as now but people could handle someone having a different opinion without thinking and saying the other person was bad/stupid.

And being offended wasn’t considered currency.