Covid-19 Prepping thread

[kamap]

I would think not but I'm not certain. It would be way over the top though if they could.

About the same here in Belgium.

A fine works up to a point but there will always be people that don't care about the fine (either rich or they won't pay) and will just keep on ignoring the law that you need to wear a mask.
Those few that keep on ignoring it should be locked away.

 

[krischan]

If a fixed fine system doesn't work, then it might need different concepts, like X% of your income or wealth at the first violation, twice the amount on the second, three times of it in the third and so on and if it doesn't help, bring you to court. If somebody wants to play the martyr, he might go ahead right away.

A fine is a disciplinary measure, not a conviction. It juristically means that the state is not going to sue you if you pay (I'm no lawyer though, I might be wrong). You may object to the fine and then you don't have to pay yet, but then the case probably goes to court if your objection is unjustified which will certainly lead to more costs and hassles if your guilt can be proven. In repeated cases, the state may be allowed to bring you to court right away.

 

[Glurin]

I'm a bit confused now. Can the US police break into a house if you aren't wearing a mask or can't they?

Constitutionally, no, absolutely not. Legally, also no, but several governors/mayors have tried to make it so, some through imperial decree (ie. executive order), and been told by their respective sheriffs to go pound sand. FYI, sheriffs for the most part are answerable only to the voters, not the governors. I think there's a few places where that's not the case, but it is for most of the U.S.

Of greater concern to me, however, is that there are people who don't seem to have any problem with it if they did. Frankly I find that fact more troubling than the idea that it could actually happen.

By the way, just so we're a little more clear here, it's not the mask mandates perse that are the problem. It's they way they are passed and enforced. For example, there was one in Michigan or Wisconsin I think that went to court and the judge specifically told the governor that the mandate itself was fine, but they did not have the authority to just declare it to be law. It had to go through the legislative process like any other law. The governor, in turn, openly defied the judge and basically told everyone "I am the governor and that means you have to do what I say because my word is law." That's the sort of thing that ultimately led to masks becoming something of a symbol of oppression for some people.

 

[krischan]

If that governor really said it like that, he needs to be stripped of his position. To which extent can he pass or prevent laws? Which means are there to keep him in check? Is there a parliament or a court that can dispose of him in certain circumstances? Perhaps the US needs to be adapted to modern times a bit. Many of its power structures are due to times when travel, communication and control were far more difficult than today, like having a very strong leader of a state or the country(which speeds up decisions) or the way the president and the Congress are elected (people were done with the harvest in November and cannot go voting at any time, so that's when a president is elected and if the seat is vacant, no elections are about to occur before 4 years have passed).

I think the US policemen are pretty badly trained for the job. They need a longer apprenticeship and more care has to be taken about deciding who's qualified. We have a 2 or 3 year apprenticeship for them here in Germany and you will have to pass a psychological tests before. Even then, we still have cases of inacceptable policemen.

 

[kamap]

Yeah that Governor should go. I get that it might be a symbol of oppression for some people, doesn't change the fact that it keeps the people around you safe and to a certain extent keeps you safe as well.

Make a tshirt, a flag or get a individually styled mask that screams that you are against oppression / a governor / the state / the country / aliens / whatever / ... but wear the damn mask out of respect for your fellow people and yourself.

 

[superdave]

Oh? You don't see anything fundamentally wrong about police kicking down doors to arrest people in their own homes for not wearing a mask? You don't think that maybe, just maybe, that's taking things just a little bit too far?

Even if this were the new Black Death and you had to wear a full virus rated hazmat suit just to go outside, I'd be pretty damn skeptical on having the police arrest people for not wearing a flimsy paper mask in their own home.

Again...cops are NOT kicking down homeowner's doors because they are not wearing masks. You have yet to link a single instance of this happening. You are less smart Merv if he was an actual Trumper.

 

[superdave]

I'm a bit confused now. Can the US police break into a house if you aren't wearing a mask or can't they? I understood that the police did that in the mentioned case because of illegal gatherings at home, no matter if they wore masks or not.

No. The police are only breaking up parties. They need a warrant to enter a house or the homeowner needs to let them in. There is NO confusion here. Glurin is pulling shit out of his ass. He needs to back up his claims and he can't list a single article of this happening. It is Republican scare tactics.

 

[superdave]

If that governor really said it like that, he needs to be stripped of his position. To which extent can he pass or prevent laws? Which means are there to keep him in check? Is there a parliament or a court that can dispose of him in certain circumstances?

Yes, there are state legislators that can reign in a Governor's use of emergency powers. There are also state courts. We've seen hundreds of examples of this happening in many states this year.

 

[superdave]

I also think that Superdave is meaning that they can kick down a door to get to someone who has been known not to wear a mask in public when required.
If he means that you need to wear a mask in your own home, then screw Superdave, I'm not doing that unless I, my wife or kids have contracted the virus.

Wow. Really? Go back and read my posts.

And that idea doesn't bother you? You went outside without a chin diaper, therefore it's ok to have the gestapo...I mean...police barge into your home and arrest you? Are you sure there's nothing at all you find remotely disturbing about that image?

No they DON"T. Link to a single instance of this happening or STFU.

 

[kamap]

Wow. Really? Go back and read my posts.

No they DON"T. Link to a single instance of this happening or STFU.

I was refering to: Cops are not kicking down doors because people are not wearing masks...not that i'd have a problem with that if they did. Just saying, it's not happening as you stated.

The part: not that I'd have a problem with that if they did.

I hope you meant that they can kick down a door to get to someone who has been known not to wear a mask in public when required.
and I doubt you mean that you need to wear a mask in your home like Glurin is suggesting.

There is some context and explanation missing and that leads to assumptions and that leads to faulty communications.

 

[superdave]

OK le

The part: not that I'd have a problem with that if they did.

I forgot to add the sarcasm emoji.

 

[Glurin]

If that governor really said it like that, he needs to be stripped of his position. To which extent can he pass or prevent laws? Which means are there to keep him in check? Is there a parliament or a court that can dispose of him in certain circumstances? Perhaps the US needs to be adapted to modern times a bit. Many of its power structures are due to times when travel, communication and control were far more difficult than today, like having a very strong leader of a state or the country(which speeds up decisions) or the way the president and the Congress are elected (people were done with the harvest in November and cannot go voting at any time, so that's when a president is elected and if the seat is vacant, no elections are about to occur before 4 years have passed).

I think the US policemen are pretty badly trained for the job. They need a longer apprenticeship and more care has to be taken about deciding who's qualified. We have a 2 or 3 year apprenticeship for them here in Germany and you will have to pass a psychological tests before. Even then, we still have cases of inacceptable policemen.

You're absolutely right. Governors (along with any other authority figure) like that should be stripped of power. In fact in December there was a petition to do exactly that for the California governor for his transgressions. It quickly gathered over 800,000 signatures, which is well over half what is needed to force a recall vote and still has until March to get the rest.

As far as what powers the governors have, they're pretty much set up the same as the president. They can't just make royal decrees. If they want a new law passed, it has to go through the state legislatures to be voted on. Then if they pass it, the governor can either sign it into law or veto it. If it was vetoed, then it goes back to the legislature where they have the option to vote to override the veto with enough votes. Then of course it's up to the courts to interpret the law and if need be determine if said law is even valid under the state and/or federal constitution. Governors can issue executive orders, but those orders are not law and cannot be used to create law.

At least that's the way it's supposed to work. Sadly the idea of a balance of power is becoming more and more the exception rather than the rule here in the U.S.

On the policemen, they really get a bad reputation only because that's the way the media and certain political interests have chosen to portray them. Things like the idea that they run around shooting black people at random have been repeatedly and thoroughly debunked, but you almost never hear about it. Fact is the evidence at this point is showing the exact opposite is true, which is problematic in it's own way. But people have now learned that if they scream racism loudly enough they can get away with murder.

 

[kamap]

Most cops do their job good or excellent, there are a few rotten apples though, who bring the whole force down.

I work at a police station and I've come across really awesome cops and some really bad ones, most are average or slightly above.

 

[superdave]

1/2 million US dead in 1 year. Equal to the pop of the city of Atlanta. This is now the 9th most deadly worldwide pandemic of all time and could pass the 7th by this year.

 

[kamap]

It's a sad state the world is in and still people don't care and refuse to wear their mask and practice social distancing.

 

[Glurin]

The ones that yell and scream and in some cases physically assault people who don't wear a mask are even less helpful.

It's not that people don't care. They do. It's just that it's not that simple. There's caring, there's practicality, and then there's insanity. When you go shopping or are otherwise going to be around people, put on a mask and keep a reasonable distance. That's not too much to ask, and over 95% of people will comply if you just ask them to do it rather than tell them. Where the issues start to occur, and I really want to put a lot of emphasis on the word "start" here, is with people who, quite frankly, don't even have a baseline understanding of how viruses work.

Masks are not magic force fields. Wearing one is not the be all, end all factor between not getting sick or being personally responsible for the death of fifty trillion people. They don't catch everything, as everyone who wears glasses should know since it gets demonstrated literally right in front of their eyes every time they put one on. Viruses do not care why you are gathered together, whether it's for a football game, a church service, a "covid party" or to champion an extremely misguided cause of social justice. Sitting at a restaurant table does not create a sterilization field around you making it safe to remove your mask. Wearing your mask below your nose does diddly squat. If you feel the need to wear multiple layers of masks, try to balance that with being able to breath and maybe consider not going out at all. When it comes to people who are outside, alone, with nobody anywhere around them, masks aren't going to make a difference. Yes, masks do help somewhat in casual social contact situations. No, wearing a mask will not protect you at all from covid or any other virus if you wear one while having sex with multiple total strangers. (Yes, that last one is actual, official advice from various powers that be to make sure you wear one while engaged in such acts. )

Those are just things off the top of my head that are common sense or that I remember seeing or reading about. The list goes on and on and on. It's just not feasible to expect ICU level sterilization from the general public. Pretty much the best you can hope for is to slow the spread down enough that the hospitals can keep up until the situation is not so dire, which was in fact the original goal of the never ending fifteen day lockdowns.

Doesn't help that the numbers have been a bit inflated either. There's been quite a few incidents where it was discovered that, for example, someone gets rolled into the morgue with half a dozen bullet holes, but because the covid test comes back positive, he gets added to the covid casualty list. Then we have cases like Cuomo and his media lapdogs covering up covid deaths. Crap like that hardly inspires confidence in the accuracy of the data.

 

[kamap]

Most people care that is true but there are still that don't.

There is a mother that I frequently see when I drop my kids off at school and most of the time she has her mask strapped under her chin or under her nose, there is a comming and going of parrents and kids and she just doesn't wear it. If anything gets said about it, she just shrugs and keeps on walking. That is not caring.

I find it quite simple, leaving your house, make sure you have a maks with you.
Needing to be somewhere with a lot of people around, put it on.

It is not the the be all, end all thing to stop the virus but it helps and what would give someone the right not to wear one when others do?

 

[Noodle]

The ones that yell and scream and in some cases physically assault people who don't wear a mask are even less helpful.

It's not that people don't care. They do. It's just that it's not that simple. There's caring, there's practicality, and then there's insanity. When you go shopping or are otherwise going to be around people, put on a mask and keep a reasonable distance. That's not too much to ask, and over 95% of people will comply if you just ask them to do it rather than tell them. Where the issues start to occur, and I really want to put a lot of emphasis on the word "start" here, is with people who, quite frankly, don't even have a baseline understanding of how viruses work.

Masks are not magic force fields. Wearing one is not the be all, end all factor between not getting sick or being personally responsible for the death of fifty trillion people. They don't catch everything, as everyone who wears glasses should know since it gets demonstrated literally right in front of their eyes every time they put one on. Viruses do not care why you are gathered together, whether it's for a football game, a church service, a "covid party" or to champion an extremely misguided cause of social justice. Sitting at a restaurant table does not create a sterilization field around you making it safe to remove your mask. Wearing your mask below your nose does diddly squat. If you feel the need to wear multiple layers of masks, try to balance that with being able to breath and maybe consider not going out at all. When it comes to people who are outside, alone, with nobody anywhere around them, masks aren't going to make a difference. Yes, masks do help somewhat in casual social contact situations. No, wearing a mask will not protect you at all from covid or any other virus if you wear one while having sex with multiple total strangers. (Yes, that last one is actual, official advice from various powers that be to make sure you wear one while engaged in such acts. )

Those are just things off the top of my head that are

Doesn't help that the numbers have been a bit inflated either. There's been quite a few incidents where it was discovered that, for example, someone gets rolled into the morgue with half a dozen bullet holes, but because the covid test comes back positive, he gets added to the covid casualty list. Then we have cases like Cuomo and his media lapdogs covering up covid deaths. Crap like that hardly inspires confidence in the accuracy of the data.

Proof, please.

 

[superdave]

Proof, please.

But, but, but....he read on his crazy uncles facebook that doctors were classifying victims of shootings as covid victims so they could get some of that sweet gov't bonus monies.

Next week he'll be back to tell us that the numbers were undercounted and point to the fiasco in NY's nursing homes as proof of that.

Misinformation is the goal.

 

[Glurin]

Seriously superdave? Even the MSM has turned away from Cuomo over that particular scandal and yet you still deny even the possibility that the numbers are being manipulated?

And no, that isn't from my "crazy uncle". It's from county coroners across the nation. They have to report to the CDC any covid positive results. The CDC splits those numbers into people who died from covid and people who died with covid. There's a huge difference between the two, in case you didn't notice. The problem is that politicians and the news media aren't so diligent about making that distinction and, just like the daily body counts during the Bush years, they are foaming at the mouth in their eagerness to make the situation look much worse than it actually is.