Police Shooting Thread

[ioupain]

Bullshit. You're just regurgitating that crap that racism only applies to non-whites.

I merely quoted some passages to show that your understanding of the term 'white privilege' was incorrect.

Additionally, when most people talk about racism, they are referring to institutional and structural racism, not localised prejudice or bigotry. It's suits your narrative to lump everything together, however that's an unsophisticated approach. When I am writing/talking about racism, I'm talking about the entire framework of society and how it affects entire cohorts/collectives of people on a national or global scale, not individuals.

Do you agree that institutional racism and structural racism exist? If you don't, then there's no reason to continue a conversation because that would mean you've neglected all the mountains of evidence, research, empirical data and lived experience of billions of people.

I've seen these "white privilege" checklists. 95% of what's on them has got nothing to do with skin color, and the stuff that does is basically just "if you're white you're guilty".

Again, showing your lack of understanding and you're also just fabricating numbers and making claims without any foundation. It's not about guilt/blame, but recognising the disadvantages PoC face at a societal level. The fact that you're distilling this down to "if you're white you're guilty" speaks volumes about your feelings but doesn't actually address the point I was making - which was to point out you made this incorrect claim, which is a complete distortion of the term white privilege:

Being white doesn't mean you start out rich

People using the term white privilege correctly are not saying that at all.

Seriously, they include being male

1. Male privilege is a thing - again, another self-evident fact. Anyone who thinks it doesn't exist, simply doesn't pass the laugh test and therefore shouldn't expect people to engage with them.
2. Privileges can and do overlap - aka intersectionality:
   the interconnected nature of social categorizations such as race, class, and gender as they apply to a given individual or group, regarded as creating overlapping and interdependent systems of discrimination or disadvantage.

Two words. Affirmative action. People are being denied jobs because the company needs to meet it's minority quotas. So called "white privilege" ain't protecting or helping anybody there. That's where you'll find your institutionalized racism. It's not good for anybody, black or white.

“to the privileged, equality feels like discrimination”

There have been countless CV/Resume studies that show fictional candidates with the exact same CV, but with different names on the top have statistically significant differences in outcome that can only be explained by the racism exhibited by HR/hiring manager:
"The job search effort was less successful for ethnic minorities who, despite having identical CVs and cover letters, needed to send 60% more applications in order to receive as many callbacks as the majority group." (http://csi.nuff.ox.ac.uk/?p=1299)

You're starting your argument at a 'solution/treatment plan' (Affirmative action) without recognising the 'root cause' (Racism/other -isms). Affirmative action was a (flawed) solution created to counteract structural/institutional racism and a whole lot of other -isms. It is often badly implemented because the people implementing it are often the very same people that contribute to the root cause - you have the foxes guarding the hen house.

If you remove 'race' from the affirmative action equation, you still have affirmative action on the basis of:

• age
• disability
• gender reassignment
• marriage and civil partnership
• pregnancy and maternity
• religion or belief
• sex
• sexual orientation

Affirmative action is trying to redress the ongoing discrimination that people face in the workplace/in general society. There is a wide gamut of affirmative action or equivalent business practices - like unconscious bias training etc. I want to make it clear that I'm not making a case for or against these practices, rather pointing out that these practices exist because of discrimination that is quantifiable and therefore existent. I personally prefer 'blind hiring' practices.

Even if you remove all those types of discrimination and therefore the requirement to have affirmative action processes (or equivalent), you still don't have a truly fair application process, because of human nature - people have networks and friends etc. The idea that businesses run their hiring as a true meritocracy is laughable. Therefore the introduction of these practices doesn't taint a pristine system, it just alters a flawed system.

It's not good for anybody, black or white

If it's not good for anybody, at least that's more equal than the system only being good for white people!

 

[Glurin]

Do you agree that institutional racism and structural racism exist? If you don't, then there's no reason to continue a conversation because that would mean you've neglected all the mountains of evidence, research, empirical data and lived experience of billions of people.

No I do not. That "mountain of evidence" is more like a mountain of lies, misrepresented data and steaming bullshit that has already been discredited numerous times. In fact in some of those cases, the data they use directly contradicts their own conclusions.

The year is 2021, not 1950. The current data just flat out does not support the idea of institutional racism in the U.S. At least not in the way the woke and their political lapdogs want us to believe it does.

Male privilege is a thing - again, another self-evident fact. Anyone who thinks it doesn't exist, simply doesn't pass the laugh test and therefore shouldn't expect people to engage with them.

Hardly. The glass ceiling is a myth. The wage gap is a myth. Both are explained almost entirely by individual choices in careers and education. Sports? Men and women are biologically different, giving men on average a significant physical advantage. That's why they are separated in the first place. Again, we're not living in 1950.

Even if you were right, you cannot fix discrimination with more discrimination. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. You will only make the situation even worse because it causes you to ascribe racism to people and events where there is none.

 

[Noodle]

 

[superdave]

The year is 2021, not 1950. The current data just flat out does not support the idea of institutional racism in the U.S.

He actually believes the Freedom Marches of the 60's cured racism. It no longer exists in his Utopian Society.

 

[Noodle]

Well, he also believes that no one has died of COVID and that there are actual reeducation camps that Republicans are being thrown into, so his credibility is pretty much nonexistent.

 

[ioupain]

No I do not. That "mountain of evidence" is more like a mountain of lies, misrepresented data and steaming bullshit that has already been discredited numerous times. In fact in some of those cases, the data they use directly contradicts their own conclusions.

The year is 2021, not 1950. The current data just flat out does not support the idea of institutional racism in the U.S. At least not in the way the woke and their political lapdogs want us to believe it does.


Hardly. The glass ceiling is a myth. The wage gap is a myth. Both are explained almost entirely by individual choices in careers and education. Sports? Men and women are biologically different, giving men on average a significant physical advantage. That's why they are separated in the first place. Again, we're not living in 1950.

Even if you were right, you cannot fix discrimination with more discrimination. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. You will only make the situation even worse because it causes you to ascribe racism to people and events where there is none.

As I suspected, your views don't pass the laugh test, you claim we're not living in 1950, but your views are even more archaic!

As each of your points get shot down, you desperately scramble to drag more and more topics into this conversation, perhaps because you think I won't notice that you still haven't addressed my point about how you've been misusing terms?

You've also misunderstood what people mean by 'male privilege'. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that when people (or the vast majority of people) talk about male privilege that they are advocating for mixing genders in sports. That's so far divorced from reality that I can only assume your intent is throw more obvious distractions into this conversation.

Male privilege is a vast topic, not limited to workplace/sports but woven into every facet of life on a global scale.

Even if you were right, you cannot fix discrimination with more discrimination.

Can you point out where you think I've advocated for fixing discrimination with more discrimination?

Anyway, it's clear to me that you only seem to be interested in distortion or ascribing things to me (and others) that we don't think. Wouldn't you be more comfortable on Parler?

 

[superdave]

Wouldn't you be more comfortable on Parler?

Where do you think he gets his talking points?

 

[ioupain]

Where do you think he gets his talking points?

A blocked toilet!

 

[Noodle]

Just read a story about the National Football League's fund to compensate former players who've experienced brain trauma while playing. The league, which has a Black majority of players, uses an algorithm to determine who's been affected by CTE that assumes Black players started with lower cognitive skills than white players, making it more difficult for Black former players to claim benefits.

No way that's racist, though, right?

 

[Glurin]

Can you point out where you think I've advocated for fixing discrimination with more discrimination?

Each and every time you talk about white privilege being a thing. Every time you do, you are making assumptions based on the color of one's skin. That makes you a racist, ioupain. Every bit as bad as those nutballs who dress up in white bedsheets and burn crosses.

 

[ioupain]

Each and every time you talk about white privilege being a thing.

No.

Since you've proven you don't actually understand what white privilege means, your attempt to claim that my points above regarding white privilege amount to the same thing as support for an approach of discrimination to fix discrimination is even more nonsensical. You have no evidence for your claim so now you're just making more crap up as seems to be your default.

 

[Glurin]

I don't think you even know your own argument. You claim white privilege means you get advantages over non-whites. Then when called out on it you claim that's not what it means, because what it really means is white people aren't discriminated against and non-whites are. Then when called out on it again, you claim once again that's not what it means.

It's clear that what you're really after here is a desperate attempt to cling to the nebulous belief of institutional racism. You want so desperately to believe that every time a black person is denied a job or pulled over for speeding or just disagreed with, it must have been because of skin color. I can only assume that it's because it makes you feel like some sort of champion fighting the good fight for racial equality, even though it's more analogous to a witch hunt.

 

[superdave]

You want so desperately to believe that every time a black person is denied a job or pulled over for speeding or just disagreed with, it must have been because of skin color.

As desperately as you want to believe it isn't?

 

[Glurin]

As desperately as you want to believe it isn't?

And would that be such a bad thing? To be certain in the belief that a person got that job not because of skin color, one way or another, but because of merit? To know that if you were pulled over for speeding, it's because you were speeding? To disagree with someone without them pulling the race card to dismiss everything you have to say before you even have a chance to say it?

Before you blame society for all your ills, take a good hard look at yourself and assess what you did wrong or what you could have done better. If someone says you were denied entry to the building because you stink and you don't have any pants on, take their word for it unless you can prove you're wearing pants and don't smell like a compost heap. Don't just assume racism for every bad thing that happens.

 

[superdave]

Most racists hate to be called out on their racism. Their only defense is to deny that racism exists in the first place.

 

[ioupain]

I don't think you even know your own argument.

No. You just don't like being called out for misusing terms and now you're lashing out.

You claim white privilege means you get advantages over non-whites. Then when called out on it you claim that's not what it means, because what it really means is white people aren't discriminated against and non-whites are. Then when called out on it again, you claim once again that's not what it means.

Again, even more evidence that you don't understand white privilege at all.

It's clear that what you're really after here is a desperate attempt to cling to the nebulous belief of institutional racism.

You're the only one here who thinks it's nebulous and by the way, you claimed that affirmative action was institutional racism here:

That's where you'll find your institutionalized racism.

So as any other forumite can see, you're playing the game of "It doesn't exist, but if it does exist I'm the victim waah waah". So you're both claiming it doesn't exist and is simultaneously negatively impacting white people?

You want so desperately to believe that every time a black person is denied a job or pulled over for speeding or just disagreed with, it must have been because of skin color.

The only person who seems desperate here is you; desperate that is to distort and put words in my mouth. Firstly, I don't have the sort of binary thinking you're claiming here. Secondly, am I to interpret from this that you believe skin colour never plays a part in any of those scenarios - is that what you're asserting?

I can only assume that it's because it makes you feel like some sort of champion fighting the good fight for racial equality, even though it's more analogous to a witch hunt.

It's funny that you use the term 'witch hunt', one of the key elements of that term is that in that scenario there's no evidence the victim of the witch hunt did anything wrong. Unfortunately for you, there is ample video and sound evidence that police routinely kill innocent black people illegally (and against natural justice), so when people call out the police, it's not a witch hunt, it doesn't meet the criteria for that term.

Black people on the other hand are actual victims of a witch hunt, the same video evidence exonerates many black people as it shows too many black people being killed for simply existing...though from everything I've seen of your posts so far, to you 'black people existing' probably counts as 'doing something wrong' in your mind. This is why police fight so hard to destroy video evidence. If your position was the truth, it would thrive under transparency, not crumble to pieces.

 

[ioupain]

take their word for it unless you can prove you're wearing pants and don't smell like a compost heap.

That's the problem, when people do prove they are innocent, you still blame them and claim racism doesn't exist.

EDIT:

Don't just assume racism for every bad thing that happens.

Literally nobody here is saying that. Again with the straw men, you keep framing my position as absolute statements that I've never made. I'd ask you to point out where I've said this but you'll probably copy and paste something else irrelevant!

 

[Glurin]

Most racists hate to be called out on their racism. Their only defense is to deny that racism exists in the first place.

As opposed to seeing it around every corner like some kind of boogeyman?

Guilt before innocence! Burn the witch! That's the way to go!

Literally nobody here is saying that.

This thread's very existence is someone doing exactly that.

The only person who seems desperate here is you; desperate that is to distort and put words in my mouth. Firstly, I don't have the sort of binary thinking you're claiming here. Secondly, am I to interpret from this that you believe skin colour never plays a part in any of those scenarios - is that what you're asserting?

You're damn right it doesn't. Such allegations have been discredited over and over and over again, and yet that never seems to stop people from pushing the lie that it is always motivated by race. It's just too damn easy for people to point at a stat like "50% of speeding tickets are given to black people who only make up 20% of the population, therefore racism." They never stop to consider that black people account for 50% of speeders by their own admission or that most of the tickets were handed out at night when you can't actually see the driver.

Black man shot and killed by white cop, therefore racism. How many times now have we seen this? Doesn't matter that the guy was violently assaulting someone or waving a weapon around or resisting the officers. The story we are told every time right from the get go is that this was a pure and innocent victim on his way to give his entire life savings to the homeless because that's just how angelic he was. That is until some evil racist white cops hunted him down for sport because all cops are racist and all white people are racist so that makes them doubly racist. Oh those poor black people who are in constant danger just because of their skin color so obviously they have to run and pull random objects out of their pockets any time the cops want to talk to them. Here's a thought. When the cop tells you don't move, don't move.

Even in a clear cut case like the recent incident of a cop saving someone's life by shooting the person who was in the process of trying to stab her. We still see people shouting racism, along with claims that the cop should have shot the knife out of her hand, shot her in the arm, shot her in the leg, fired a warning shot into the air, all of which is really stupid advice that only works in the movies and will get you or other people killed IRL. (yes those are all actual statements made by prominent political figures and media personalities) Now in some places none of that will even be an option because they're going to start sending unarmed social workers to deal with it instead of someone trained and equipped to handle such situations.

That's not to say racism never ever occurs. Of course it does. Take the recent rise in anti-asian hate crimes. Predominantly committed by black people by as much as 80% in some areas. There's something going on there that really aught to be looked into, but it's being swept under the rug because it doesn't fit the politically correct narrative. The thing I take issue with though is the growing push by the extreme left to assume that the U.S. is inherently and unchangeably racist at it's core and has been from the beginning. They want everyone to start with the assumption that every incident involving a minority is due to racism because white people are born racist. That assumption has directly caused far more death, destruction and misery in the last twenty years than every legitimate case of racism in the same period combined. They are telling people that it's okay to react violently when someone says anything they don't like because that means the person is probably a nazi racist. As a result, what these so called champions of social justice have done is piss all over MLK's legacy and destroy the last fifty years of progress in race relations.

 

[superdave]

I would avoid using the words witch and witch hunt! The former guy used these a lot when denying that he ever received help from the Russians during the election. We all know how that played out.

We still see people shouting racism, along with claims that the cop should have shot the knife out of her hand, shot her in the arm, shot her in the leg, fired a warning shot into the air, all of which is really stupid advice that only works in the movies and will get you or other people killed IRL. (yes those are all actual statements made by prominent political figures and media personalities)

Match the statement with the political figure or media personality.

Who said,,,

Shoot the knife out of her hand?
Shoot her in the arm?
Shoot her in the leg?
Fire a warning shot?

That's not to say racism never ever occurs. Of course it does. Take the recent rise in anti-asian hate crimes. Predominantly committed by black people by as much as 80% in some areas.

I knew this was coming. This is a white supremacist's go to deflection..... Racism doesn't exist in American and if it did, it is the Blacks who are the actual racists.

Boom! Smokebomb!

 

[ioupain]

As opposed to seeing it around every corner like some kind of boogeyman?

Guilt before innocence! Burn the witch! That's the way to go!


This thread's very existence is someone doing exactly that.


You're damn right it doesn't. Such allegations have been discredited over and over and over again, and yet that never seems to stop people from pushing the lie that it is always motivated by race. It's just too damn easy for people to point at a stat like "50% of speeding tickets are given to black people who only make up 20% of the population, therefore racism." They never stop to consider that black people account for 50% of speeders by their own admission or that most of the tickets were handed out at night when you can't actually see the driver.

Black man shot and killed by white cop, therefore racism. How many times now have we seen this? Doesn't matter that the guy was violently assaulting someone or waving a weapon around or resisting the officers. The story we are told every time right from the get go is that this was a pure and innocent victim on his way to give his entire life savings to the homeless because that's just how angelic he was. That is until some evil racist white cops hunted him down for sport because all cops are racist and all white people are racist so that makes them doubly racist. Oh those poor black people who are in constant danger just because of their skin color so obviously they have to run and pull random objects out of their pockets any time the cops want to talk to them. Here's a thought. When the cop tells you don't move, don't move.

Even in a clear cut case like the recent incident of a cop saving someone's life by shooting the person who was in the process of trying to stab her. We still see people shouting racism, along with claims that the cop should have shot the knife out of her hand, shot her in the arm, shot her in the leg, fired a warning shot into the air, all of which is really stupid advice that only works in the movies and will get you or other people killed IRL. (yes those are all actual statements made by prominent political figures and media personalities) Now in some places none of that will even be an option because they're going to start sending unarmed social workers to deal with it instead of someone trained and equipped to handle such situations.

That's not to say racism never ever occurs. Of course it does. Take the recent rise in anti-asian hate crimes. Predominantly committed by black people by as much as 80% in some areas. There's something going on there that really aught to be looked into, but it's being swept under the rug because it doesn't fit the politically correct narrative. The thing I take issue with though is the growing push by the extreme left to assume that the U.S. is inherently and unchangeably racist at it's core and has been from the beginning. They want everyone to start with the assumption that every incident involving a minority is due to racism because white people are born racist. That assumption has directly caused far more death, destruction and misery in the last twenty years than every legitimate case of racism in the same period combined. They are telling people that it's okay to react violently when someone says anything they don't like because that means the person is probably a nazi racist. As a result, what these so called champions of social justice have done is piss all over MLK's legacy and destroy the last fifty years of progress in race relations.

There we have it folks, this guys thinks that black people's skin colour never plays a part (i.e. isn't a factor) in any case/scenario.

You sound unhinged.

Everything you have posted here has displayed a serious lack of:

• critical thinking
• understanding of history
• understanding of human nature
• logical reasoning

I'll continue to disregard your made up statistics that you've yet to provide any sources for.

I'll also disregard your transparent attempt to recover some ground by claiming that nobody cares about anti-Asian racism, because newsflash, I care about that too, because I have a consistent position regarding the need for racial equity for all humans. I don't however agree with your claims regarding the perpetrators. I'll also point out that you're resurrecting a 90's trope of Black-Asian conflict which was false then and false now.

And finally, don't talk to me about Dr MLK or his legacy. Everything you have said here has convinced me that you would have been on the side against him and I'd hazard a guess that you might have even cheered his assassination? At the very least, he'd find your views completely abhorrent. Why is it that racists always try to weaponise Dr MLK against people advocating for an end to racism? (Rhetorical question - don't try to answer as you'll end up tying yourself into even more knots)

Your views are demonstrably wrong and I'm now blocking you because, as I suspected, there is zero point engaging with someone who has such a warped world view that bares no relation to reality. Don't expect a further response. I have no doubt that you'll view this as some sort of victory (because you're you), but everyone on the internet knows that best course of action is to just block trolls and move on.