INVADER ZIM and the St. Valentine's Day Massacre! Post Game Thread TOWNIE WIN!!

[Pancakes]

There is obviously a possibility we are wrong about Pancakes. But, it's down to a choice between a town claim we don't necessarily believe, or one of the three "unknowns".

If we are wrong about cakes, you (as town) shouldn't just jump ship on us..

But you absolutely should. There was never a moment of doubt that I am scum. This witch hunt was full steam from the start. My role claim is too obscure? My role claim isn't obscure enough? My role claim is too convenient? We have actual evidence and we're still entertaining this D1 hypothetical nonsense?
My list didn't include this role, or that role? It was never supposed to be the full list. I am not the game mod. I do not have the full list.
But let's address the whole organ thing. That's the boldest accusation, after all. We are to believe two investigative power roles both checked on me, and both were silenced. Then...nothing happened to them? If I know a cop is investigating, or whatever D2DC is, I would kill him, yes? He's revealed himself as the most powerful role yet. Unless that's not how the rules go. I stead I leave him alone and continue to work for the town pressing leads, even as he and snicker railroad me.

You should absolutely lynch one of that triumvirate when I flip town. And don't let them convince you that this lynch is no harm, no foul; mafia can and will try to get two in one. A lynch on me plus a successful NK gets them right back in this game, no matter if it's one, two, or even three.

 

[Pancakes]

N1. Didn't say what I did. Just visited you and woke up blacked out and voteless.


Oooh.. devious Pyro.. devious!

I think Pyro is Tak. And, has the only NK ability. Which means, Pancakes is probably GIR/ascetic and turns people voteless. N1 Pyro gets a nice shot in on Zim, I visit Cakes and lose my heart. N2, Snickers visits Cakes and loses his voicebox. Strange that nobody dies N2, when there were 2 fairly strong town claims already on the board (d2lover/Snicker). Then Pyro comes out with a story that he had 1-shot BP, and by inference, that is what must have stopped the NK. What really happened? Pyro decides to NOT NK, and then make up the story that would get everybody thinking that he was the NK target, thereby clearing him as town.

Unvote: Pancakes
Vote: Pyrotechnician

This makes the most sense out of everything so far. Does anyone have any other evidence for this? This would definitely be the time to reveal it if so.

 

[D2DC]

My list didn't include this role, or that role? It was never supposed to be the full list.

I never expected your list to be exhaustive. However as a fake-claim, the more obscure the character, the less likely scum would run into a counter claim. You better believe that if a scum fake-claimed Dib or Gaz, someone out there knows they are lying.

 

[D2DC]

But let's address the whole organ thing. That's the boldest accusation, after all. We are to believe two investigative power roles both checked on me, and both were silenced. Then...nothing happened to them? If I know a cop is investigating, or whatever D2DC is, I would kill him, yes? He's revealed himself as the most powerful role yet.

I just explained the organ thing. I don't have any doubts that we (Snicker and I) visited you and came up voteless the following day. Whether that is down to you, or a coincidence of targeting remains to be seen.

Also, I did not claim cop (although, I'm always the cop.. ), just that I visited you. And, who said anything about you killing them? Ascetic, the role Snicker mentioned just stops all actions against you.

 

[D2DC]

You should absolutely lynch one of that triumvirate when I flip town.

Even if you are town, you should not endorse this. You really think that d2lover's Gaz claim would not have been countered by now if it were fake?

 

[Pancakes]

I just explained the organ thing. I don't have any doubts that we (Snicker and I) visited you and came up voteless the following day. Whether that is down to you, or a coincidence of targeting remains to be seen.

Also, I did not claim cop (although, I'm always the cop.. ), just that I visited you. And, who said anything about you killing them? Ascetic, the role Snicker mentioned just stops all actions against you.

I was using cop as an example of an investigative role. Not intended as a claim or accusation of your role.

 

[Pancakes]

I never expected your list to be exhaustive. However as a fake-claim, the more obscure the character, the less likely scum would run into a counter claim. You better believe that if a scum fake-claimed Dib or Gaz, someone out there knows they are lying.

I agree.

 

[Pancakes]

Even if you are town, you should not endorse this. You really think that d2lover's Gaz claim would not have been countered by now if it were fake?

It's not the claims that alarm me, it's the certainty and the attempts to sweep responsibility for a townie lynch aside. Maybe I was rash with advocating for the lynch, but there should definitely be scrutiny on who led the charge against me.

 

[Babyhell]

Oooh.. devious Pyro.. devious!

are things kicking out...

 

[D2DC]

Morning thoughts:
- We are told Zim was replacing organs, how/by whom were organs replaced after Zim was killed?
- Something about the targeting claims this far strikes me as bus driverish. I may be wrong here, but it's difficult to keep track of the claimed night actions and their respective results. Can anyone run down the night actions claims for us? GIR, being chaotic neutral, would be a good candidate for a bus driver.
- Still want to see more role claims.

Cakes, this is one post that I find a really hard pill to swallow.

If I were in your shoes (as town), and TWO people claim to have visited me and then woke up organless and voteless. I would have to concede that it looks pretty bad. I would either be screaming that one (or both) of them must be lying, or that there MUST be some other explanation for what happened. I am the one that suggested there could be a JK out there and just happened to target the both of us each night we targeted you. You just kind of ignore your potential involvement in the two incidents. It's like you're trying to sweep it under the rug and hope that nobody remembers what happened..

Like I said, as town, if I were in your position, I would be accepting that things look bad from others' perspective yet trying to figure out an explanation for what happened. You don't seem to be doing that.

 

[Pancakes]

Cakes, this is one post that I find a really hard pill to swallow.

If I were in your shoes (as town), and TWO people claim to have visited me and then woke up organless and voteless. I would have to concede that it looks pretty bad. I would either be screaming that one (or both) of them must be lying, or that there MUST be some other explanation for what happened. I am the one that suggested there could be a JK out there and just happened to target the both of us each night we targeted you. You just kind of ignore your potential involvement in the two incidents. It's like you're trying to sweep it under the rug and hope that nobody remembers what happened..

Like I said, as town, if I were in your position, I would be accepting that things look bad from others' perspective yet trying to figure out an explanation for what happened. You don't seem to be doing that.

It does look bad. I don't think I need to point out to anyone that it looks bad. The multiple votes confirms that. I simply don't have an explanation. I floated bus driver, but nobody wanted to discuss that at that point. What is JK? Can't look it up at the moment.

 

[D2DC]

but there should definitely be scrutiny on who led the charge against me.

Scrutiny is fine. But, town lynch town all the time. It doesn't make us scum. Dib, Gaz, or myself (take a guess..), would certainly be facing a counter claim by now if those were fake. You're welcome to criticize/scrutinize us if we get it wrong, just (if you're town) don't abandon ship and start voting us..

 

[D2DC]

It does look bad. I don't think I need to point out to anyone that it looks bad. The multiple votes confirms that. I simply don't have an explanation. I floated bus driver, but nobody wanted to discuss that at that point. What is JK? Can't look it up at the moment.

JK = Jailkeeper, or RB = Roleblocker

Either one can target a player and prevent their night action from succeeding. JK also protects/prevents their target from kills.

 

[Pyrotechnician]

N1. Didn't say what I did. Just visited you and woke up blacked out and voteless.


Oooh.. devious Pyro.. devious!

I think Pyro is Tak. And, has the only NK ability. Which means, Pancakes is probably GIR/ascetic and turns people voteless. N1 Pyro gets a nice shot in on Zim, I visit Cakes and lose my heart. N2, Snickers visits Cakes and loses his voicebox. Strange that nobody dies N2, when there were 2 fairly strong town claims already on the board (d2lover/Snicker). Then Pyro comes out with a story that he had 1-shot BP, and by inference, that is what must have stopped the NK. What really happened? Pyro decides to NOT NK, and then make up the story that would get everybody thinking that he was the NK target, thereby clearing him as town.

Unvote: Pancakes
Vote: Pyrotechnician

I mean, its a good story? But I would take the night kill over withholding my kill anyday if I were scum and you know that as well as anyone else. The downsides to not performing a night kill and then trying to come up with some kind of story to explain it why there was no death far outweigh the upsides. Honestly if I had the ability to kill someone, I would have taken a shot at either d2lover or snicker since they are most confirmed town. Maybe even you if I'm feeling frisky. Otherwise the odds are too stacked against recovery since there is already one scum gone.

 

[D2DC]

I mean, its a good story? But I would take the night kill over withholding my kill anyday if I were scum and you know that as well as anyone else. The downsides to not performing a night kill and then trying to come up with some kind of story to explain it why there was no death far outweigh the upsides. Honestly if I had the ability to kill someone, I would have taken a shot at either d2lover or snicker since they are most confirmed town. Maybe even you if I'm feeling frisky. Otherwise the odds are too stacked against recovery since there is already one scum gone.

Normally, I would agree. But, you were already in everybody's cross-hairs, and (if we are correct on the setup) you may be alone. When you're on a Mafia team you gotta just keep killing before you all get found out. If you're a loner, that's it. No partners to carry on after you get caught. So, you would have been more desperate to save your skin.

Also:
- You have the most obscure claim (relevant to the Valentine's day episode)
- You claim to have an ability when others have been claiming VT

That doesn't fit with the theme of the "main" characters having the abilities..

 

[D2DC]

Also (cont.):
- Your claim of BP doesn't make a whole lot of sense with the info I have

 

[coju]

We were told Zim was replacing organs in the story post summing up N1.



That was night one's wrap up. If I am understanding the procedures of mafia, since we started with a day phase no Mafia actions could occur until N1. Zim replaced the heart N1. That was pyro's heart, yes? Zim died N1, after replacing the heart. Who replaced the voice box?

My thoughts have been tak since she knows zims base.

He's "apparently" dead.

how would we stop that? Is the thought he’s still submitting night actions?

 

[coju]

That would be some 4D chess to claim BP and not submit at nk.

 

[Pyrotechnician]

Normally, I would agree. But, you were already in everybody's cross-hairs, and (if we are correct on the setup) you may be alone. When you're on a Mafia team you gotta just keep killing before you all get found out. If you're a loner, that's it. No partners to carry on after you get caught. So, you would have been more desperate to save your skin.

Also:
- You have the most obscure claim (relevant to the Valentine's day episode)
- You claim to have an ability when others have been claiming VT

That doesn't fit with the theme of the "main" characters having the abilities..

Not to disagree, but I disagree. As a loner I would still need to:

A) Eliminate any "confirmed" towns people
B) Avoid the mafia team/remove them

When you are on your own you absolutely have to make it to end game and if you are in endgame with any more than one "confirmed" town its downright impossible to win. I would have taken the shot without a doubt, otherwise I'd run into the possibility of endgame with some combination of snicker and d2lover which would be an impossible battle.

Point 1:
- Its obscure, but that's what I got, not sure what else to tell you. I could have claimed some random classmate or not claim at all like some of the others here and been fine.
Point 2:
- You do realize at least one person has to be lying about being a VT. One shot BP is also not exactly the most powerful role in the book.

 

[Pyrotechnician]

How about you @Pyrotechnician, who should our target today be?

Going back to this, not that you seem to have any stock in what I say at this moment, but I'm still leaning towards Babyhell and Pancakes.

Babyhell because he has been posting, but nothing of use, although his claiming system was elaborate. All he seems to be focused on is lynching either one of me or Pancakes, doesn't care who.

Pancakes because anyone that you "interact" with and can't perform your action + become vote restricted can't possibly be a town ability.